Sophist

Str. Now we have not discussed all those who treat accurately of being and not-being; however, let this suffice. But we must turn our eyes to those whose doctrines are less precise, that we may know from all sources that it is no easier to define the nature of being than that of not-being.

Theaet. Very well, then, we must proceed towards those others also.

Str. And indeed there seems to be a battle like that of the gods and the giants going on among them, because of their disagreement about existence.

Theaet. How so?

Str. Some of them drag down everything from heaven and the invisible to earth, actually grasping rocks and trees with their hands; for they lay their hands on all such things and maintain stoutly that that alone exists which can be touched and handled; for they define existence and body, or matter, as identical, and if anyone says that anything else, which has no body, exists, they despise him utterly, and will not listen to any other theory than their own.

Theaet. Terrible men they are of whom you speak. I myself have met with many of them.

Str. Therefore those who contend against them defend themselves very cautiously with weapons derived from the invisible world above, maintaining forcibly that real existence consists of certain ideas which are only conceived by the mind and have no body. But the bodies of their opponents, and that which is called by them truth, they break up into small fragments in their arguments, calling them, not existence, but a kind of generation combined with motion. There is always, Theaetetus, a tremendous battle being fought about these questions between the two parties.

Theaet. True.

Str. Let us, therefore, get from each party in turn a statement in defence of that which they regard as being.

Theaet. How shall we get it?

Str. It is comparatively easy to get it from those who say that it consists in ideas, for they are peaceful folk; but from those who violently drag down everything into matter, it is more difficult, perhaps even almost impossible, to get it. However, this is the way I think we must deal with them.

Theaet. What way?

Str. Our first duty would be to make them really better, if it were in any way possible; but if this cannot be done, let us pretend that they are better, by assuming that they would be willing to answer more in accordance with the rules of dialectic than they actually are. For the acknowledgement of anything by better men is more valid than if made by worse men. But it is not these men that we care about; we merely seek the truth.

Theaet. Quite right.

Str. Now tell them, assuming that they have become better, to answer you, and do you interpret what they say.

Theaet. I will do so.

Str. Let them tell whether they say there is such a thing as a mortal animal.

Theaet. Of course they do.

Str. And they agree that this is a body with a soul in it, do they not?

Theaet. Certainly.

Str. Giving to soul a place among things which exist?