Alcibiades 1
Plato (428–347 BC)
Plato's Alcibiades 1 in the Greek text edited by John Burnet.
Section 103
Section 104
Section 105
Section 106
Section 107
Section 108
Section 109
Section 110
Section 111
Section 112
[112] Soc. Well, but are the many agreed with themselves, or with one another, about the justice or injustice of men and things?
Al. Assuredly not, Socrates.
Soc. There is no subject about which they are more at variance?
Al. None.
Soc. I do not suppose that you ever saw or heard of men quarrelling over the principles of health and disease to such an extent as to go to war and kill one another for the sake of them?
Al. No indeed.
Soc. But of the quarrels about justice and injustice, even if you have never seen them, you have certainly heard from many people, including Homer; for you have heard of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Al. To be sure, Socrates.
Soc. A difference of just and unjust is the argument of and those poems?
Al. True.
Soc. Which difference caused all the wars and deaths of Trojans and Achaeans, and the deaths of the suitors of Penelope in their quarrel with Odysseus.
Al. Very true.
Soc. And when the Athenians and Lacedaemonians and Boeotians fell at Tanagra, and afterwards in the battle of Coronea, at which your father Cleinias met his end, the question was one of justice—this was the sole cause of the battles, and of their deaths.
Al. Very true.
Soc. But can they be said to understand that about which they are quarrelling to the death?
Al. Clearly not.
Soc. And yet those whom you thus allow to be ignorant are the teachers to whom you are appealing.
Al. Very true.
Soc. But how are you ever likely to know the nature of justice and injustice, about which you are so perplexed, if you have neither learned them of others nor discovered them yourself?
Al. From what you say, I suppose not.
Soc. See, again, how inaccurately you speak, Alcibiades!
Al. In what respect?
Soc. In saying that I say so.
Al. Why, did you not say that I know nothing of the just and unjust?
Soc. No; I did not.
Al. Did I, then?
Soc. Yes.
Al. How was that?
Soc. Let me explain. Suppose I were to ask you which is the greater number, two or one; you would reply ‘two’?
Al. I should.
Soc. And by how much greater?
Al. By one.
Soc. Which of us now says that two is more than one?
Al. I do.
Soc. Did not I ask, and you answer the question?
Al. Yes.