Alcibiades 1

[110] Soc. Very good; and can you tell me how long it is since you thought that you did not know the nature of the just and the unjust? What do you say to a year ago? Were you then in a state of conscious ignorance and enquiry? or did you think that you knew? And please to answer truly, that our discussion may not be in vain.

Al. Well, I thought that I knew.

Soc. And two years ago, and three years ago, and four years ago, you knew all the same?

Al. I did.

Soc. And more than four years ago you were a child—were you not?

Al. Yes.

Soc. And then I am quite sure that you thought you knew.

Al. Why are you so sure?

Soc. Because I often heard you when a child, in your teacher’s house, or elsewhere, playing at dice or some other game with the boys, not hesitating at all about the nature of the just and unjust; but very confident—crying and shouting that one of the boys was a rogue and a cheat, and had been cheating. Is it not true?

Al. But what was I to do, Socrates, when anybody cheated me?

Soc. And how can you say, ‘What was I to do’? if at the time you did not know whether you were wronged or not?

Al. To be sure I knew; I was quite aware that I was being cheated.

Soc. Then you suppose yourself even when a child to have known the nature of just and unjust?

Al. Certainly; and I did know then.

Soc. And when did you discover them—not, surely, at the time when you thought that you knew them?

Al. Certainly not.

Soc. And when did you think that you were ignorant—if you consider, you will find that there never was such a time?

Al. Really, Socrates, I cannot say.

Soc. Then you did not learn them by discovering them?

Al. Clearly not.

Soc. But just before you said that you did not know them by learning; now, if you have neither discovered nor learned them, how and whence do you come to know them?

Al. I suppose that I was mistaken in saying that I knew them through my own discovery of them; whereas, in truth, I learned them in the same way that other people learn.

Soc. So you said before, and I must again ask, of whom? Do tell me.

Al. Of the many.

Soc. Do you take refuge in them? I cannot say much for your teachers.

Al. Why, are they not able to teach?

Soc. They could not teach you how to play at draughts, which you would acknowledge (would you not) to be a much smaller matter than justice?

Al. Yes.

Soc. And can they teach the better who are unable to teach the worse?

Al. I think that they can; at any rate, they can teach many far better things than to play at draughts.

Soc. What things?